Dear all,
Sorry to rant about my relationship again. But this one takes the cake.

What do you do if you have a girlfriend whose greed gets so out of control that it interferes with her own judgment, reasoning, and sense of reality?!

A few days ago when we were at the mall, Dianne wanted to buy some new jeans and new shirt. Since we were there for other reasons, and since I had already spent more than DOUBLE what my conscience says that I should spend for clothes on her, and since we were on a tight budget, I told her no and that maybe some other time.

She got moody and angry, and put a guilt trip on me to try to make me feel bad. She doesn't usually do this, so I don't know why she started to do this now. It wasn't right, and it wasn't proper behavior. During the past two years, I've spent hundreds of dollars on clothes for her, sometimes frivolously, against my own conscience, and I felt that it was enough. We shouldn't have buy new clothes every time we go to the mall! Plus I had to pay rent, utility bills, her allowance, help her family with food expenses, our baby's doctor and medicine expenses, etc. etc. that was draining my account balance. I simply needed to control any unnecessary spending, especially those that involved over a thousand pesos.

Then the next day, after we took our baby for a vaccination, we headed toward the market to buy her shrimp and fruits to mash for the baby to eat. Along the way though, she asked me when I would give her a thousand pesos for her advance allowance. (I no longer officially give her an allowance, but in her mind, I still do, since that's what she wants badly, very badly) I knew that she needed it to give to her family for their food expenses. Getting fed up with her pestering me with money ALL the time, and her acting like I owed her money and that I was obligated to her request, I replied, "I don't know and I didn't say that I was going to give you a thousand pesos". At that, she became moody again and wanted to go home. I told her I wanted to get the fruit for the baby to eat first, but she wanted to jet off anyway. And so she did, without her shrimp and the baby's fruit. I couldn't believe how immature she still was, and how she had no respect for my wishes or choices. And how she would not listen to reason.

First, I don't like her tone in that when she asks me for something, she acts like I am obligated to agree with it, as though I already said yes when I didn't. To me, that's a form of mind control, asking for something while acting as though you've already been given a yes answer, in an attempt to get your way (this in fact is a common form of Filipino mind control). Second, I don't like constantly having to give free money to her family all the time, every week and every month. Me and my family have already given TONS of money to them, and it's never enough. They never stop asking and needing. And you are NEVER supposed to stop. My friend in Manila is fed up with this too. As he says, "they just take and take and take and get angry if you ever stop". Like me, he is naturally frugal too and hates it when Filipinos try to force us to "spend without limits".

Plus, a part of me considers it a waste to give free money to her family on a regular basis. To me a thousand pesos is a lot anyway. One of my friends from France even said that it's better to spend that money in a bar rather than give it to her family, because at least in the bar, you're getting something from the girls, whereas you don't get anything if you give it to her family. This is true. But when I told her this, she got mad and acted like I committed blasphemy. But I didn't care, since I'm tired of her falsely assuming that I owe her and her family.

And I hate how she keeps asking and taking without limits, while I'm trying to maintain a strict budget. It's like they expect you to "spend without limits" and impose it upon you. It's rude when they do that, but they do it anyway, cause their desire to RECEIVE is so great that it cancels out any logic and reason.

Another factor at work here is that I simply DO NOT FEEL GOOD when I give money to them. First of all, their morals are suspect, since I believe they attempted to con me out of a lot of money several times in the past, something my family would never do. So I do not feel that they are even good people, in my book. Second, they do not act kind, open and friendly either. They are not the kind of people that want to sit down and talk to me, listen to me, hear my problems, try to understand me, etc. When I visit a person, I want someone who will talk to me or listen to me and try to understand me. My friends here do that for me. But her family never talks or listens, has no conversation skills, does not try to understand me, etc. Instead, they just mind their own business, eat, sleep, clean the house, and hope to receive money from anyone they can. They act closed, selfish and primitive. I do not admire people like that. If they were kind and had high morals, I'd be happier giving them money to help, but they aren't. I don't like people whom I don't even feel comfortable talking to or having an open honest conversation with. Perhaps they are just different creatures, and that's why I feel this way.

I do have some Filipino friends here that I can talk to openly any time I want, who will listen to me, listen to my philosophical ruminations, complaints, questions, etc. And I am always happy to treat them or buy them drinks, even though they refuse. Because with them, I have a natural comfort zone. But with Dianne's family I do not feel a natural comfort zone that I feel with my friends. Instead, there is awkward silence as Dianne communicates between us. Her little sister Sarah is the only one I enjoy being around and feel comfortable around.

Besides, I am a person who hates waste, so I am very frugal. Every dollar I waste, in my view, should be better saved for my next trip overseas or something, not given to someone who doesn't even appreciate you.

Probably, I speculate, in their minds, I should help them with their expenses because they are taking care of my baby everyday. However, they are doing it without even asking my permission, giving me no say in the matter. And plus, I know for certain that they are taking care of the baby because they see him as part of THEIR FAMILY, and NOT, I repeat NOT because they want to help me personally! No way!

No, they don't do anything for me. They don't even talk to me, listen to me, or try to understand me like my friends do. There is no comfort zone or rapport with them. And Dianne expects me to give to them generously from my heart?! (as she puts it) That's very unrealistic.

Plus she knows very well that I am on a tight budget. It's been explained to her a bazillion times. But again, her desire to receive is so great that she forgets that of course. That explains why. Greed sends facts and logic out the window.

If I were making a salary of like $4000 a month, of course it'd be no problem for me to give $200 a month to help them. But if I'm making $100 a month, then to give them $200 a month would be letting them literally steal everything that I have.

But again, the desire to receive is so great that facts and logic go out the window.

So what should I do? How do you deal with someone who doesn't listen to reason, is motivated completely by the desire to receive, etc.? And who uses guilt and manipulation tactics to get their way?

I keep telling her to call her rich aunt in Canada to ask her to send money for food instead, but she won't do it and won't say why, or else she says that that aunt can't afford it anymore, which is bull. Anyone can afford $100 a month if they wanted to, especially if they are working full time in a Western country.

What should I do? What would you do? What do you do with someone who won't listen?

I mean, don't get me wrong, Dianne is great arm candy, which many people drool over when they see her. And she is very loyal, and is reasonably good at taking care of the baby and has solid mothering skills, even though she's often forgetful. But she has a bad and quick temper, has different values than me, is very lazy and has little energy and little patience, is wasteful, and very materialistic.

I do have some easy internet projects that I can have her do for me, to make her earn the thousand pesos she wants. But she has no patience for such things, is too lazy for that, and is stuck on receiving things in exchange for nothing. The princess mentality in her is very strong. Plus she is quick tempered, and blames that on me everytime I complain about it. It's a no win situation.

I recognize all her mind control tactics, and she knows that I recognize them, as I've told her that I'm an expert in brainwashing so don't try any of those tactics on me, but she doesn't care. To her, all that matters is what she RECEIVES in the form of money or gifts. That's the bottom line. As they say here, "money matters" and they mean that. What one RECEIVES here, is the highest attribute in the universe.

I don't know if this is true or not, but a restaurant manager here told me once that when a Filipina's parents find out that their daughter is dating a foreigner, the first thing they ask is, "What's he gonna do for US?"

I told her that if Albert Einstein were here, no one would care about his theories of relativity, gravity or time and space. Instead, all they'd care about was how GENEROUS he was and what they were going to RECEIVE from him.

That kind of sickens me. I keep telling her to try to be less materialistic, but she won't listen. And I keep asking her where I can find people here that have more spiritual aims in life. But she doesn't know. And doesn't care either. I guess though, that in this materialistic world, that's difficult.

It is an irony of course, that a country that is 99 percent Catholic is so materialistic, with "receiving" being the highest desire above all things. But that's life. And here, you aren't supposed to complain about things, or even analyze things, but just try to live with it.



Last edited by WWu777 on Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:06 am; edited 2 times in total
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PS - To give you an example of how deluded and out of touch with reality Dianne can be, get this. She knows EXACTLY how much I have in my bank account, how much I make, etc. Yet she STILL keeps asking me to buy a CAR, and sometimes asks why I can't buy a house for her so she can give it to her family!!!!!!!! Anyone who can do basic arithmetic knows I can't afford a car. And a house?! My God.

Again, her desire to RECEIVE things seems so great that it clouds her judgment and sense of reality, to the point where reason is gone, logic is gone, truth is gone, facts are gone, and even basic politeness are gone, as she gets pushy when she wants something.

This behavior is very low class of course, since she is not from a middle class family, but she doesn't care, because the values she came from says that one should do ANYTHING for money, including doing things that are classless or rude.

Speaking of rudeness, it's also quite rude the way a lot of Filipino families create this custom where foreigners are expected to support their girlfriend's families, and then THRUST this custom upon the foreigners without even giving them a choice. That is RUDE RUDE RUDE! And also creating the custom that foreigners are supposed to be generous Santa Clauses that spend without limit and happily say yes to every request bestowed upon them, and thrusting it on to them. Not only is that totally rude, but delusional as well.

But again, they do not care if they are rude in thrusting customs onto foreigners in order to try to profit from them. Rudeness or politeness are not important. All that's important is RECEIVING and TAKING, any way that you can. That's the bottom line. Cash is everything. Nothing else is of much value.

Also, she acts as though buying a house to her is the ULTIMATE FULFILLMENT in life, like getting heaven! That is obviously a very materialistic attitude and mentality. Needless to say, I don't share this value of hers, since I grew up in big houses and have had a car for years, so to me, I'm used to it and don't get off on it the way she does. In a sense, I'm beyond where she is.

But what can I do with someone so materialistic and deluded?


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Now you've revealed that she and her family are nothing but a bunch of greedy golddiggers. Sigh...

Asking a girl if she wants a diamond ring, big wedding, and nice house is like asking a guy if he wants 6 playboy bunnies as girlfriends.

From the time when we lived in caves, men went out with spears and brought home the bacon. Look at cavemen paintings; do you ever see women chasing bacon with a spear?

But I didn't ask if she wanted those things. She constantly asks for them. Her greed has gotten so out of control that she has forgotten that we can't afford all the things she wants, house, car, etc. She may know that intellectually, but the intensity of her greed has overridden her logic and reasoning components, it seems. What can I do about that? Any suggestions?

Of course, since I haven't decided that I wanted to stay here forever, I'm not going to buy a car, not even a used one. I like to keep belongings minimal here. Plus, when a foreigner drives here, he is in danger of being stopped by the police and asked for bribes.

BTW, why is it that greedy women never consider themselves to be greedy and always deny it if you call them that? Just like all liars say they're not liars, all scammers say they're not scammers, all high pressure salesman say they're not high pressure salesmen, all "bad guys" never see themselves as "bad guys", etc. It seems that words are pointless sometimes, doesn't it? The only true indicators are ACTIONS.

In this case, Dianne will deny being greedy, but her actions will indicate it. But she does admit that she wants money because, as she says "everyone needs money". True, except for maybe monks, but that's not an excuse to become greedy as well.


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Your probably just going to have to break down and get some legal representation and create a legally binding contract with her that outlines exactly what her and your responsibilities are in regards to raising the child together and her presentation of self on a daily basis. If she rescinds on the contract than you would be able to legally obtain full custody and do things your way. Its probably cheaper just hiring a nanny for 3000 a month, as you know she will do your bidding without argument. I'm probably going to end up going down this route as I am having similar issues, although probably not as extreme as what you're dealing with.

The lower cast of the Philippine society just cannot be trained to act middle class or above unless physically forced to out of distress or some kind of permanent enticement/reward system as they have been conditioned to act, think and behave a certain way that emulates their social understanding of the world around them, which is a sense of perpetual poverty. This means reminisce about the past, when have money spend it as fast as possible on "fun" stuff, and don't worry about tomorrow as they perceive having little or no power over their current predicament in life so why save for a future that may not ever come?

There is a great book that breaks down the mentalities and traits of each of the social classes, especially poverty: http://www.amazon.com/Framework-Understanding-Poverty-Ruby-Payne/dp/1929229488/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227685496&sr=1-1

I had to read it for one of my graduate classes and I decided to keep it as it explains poverty mentality extremely well an how to deal with it. If you can grab it from somewhere used, you can save yourself some money, its a good read. A lot of the negative reviews are individuals who espouse political correctness or want a definitive answer to all aspects of poverty with every part of society (which is not the aim of this book). This book is a basic introduction to poverty thinking and allows individuals to do further research themselves into issues she brings up in the book.

Anyways Winston I would deal with your problem legally down the road when you can afford it as Filipino's only understand authority and repercussions backed up by the government or other authority figure. We will never change the way they do things by arguing with them as it seems every other day they need a emotional response by us just to put them in their place. Every other day I have to argue about some kind of stupid shit that is common sense to any westerner but new to her mentality of thinking. And then she goes off and sulks like a child when she can't get her way! Same shit you have to deal with. Most of the people here grow up as immature little boy's and girls with no sense of responsibility pertaining to the real world. The ones that do have any common sense leave the country and work overseas and then immigrate once they realize the overall idiocy of their own culture's way of thinking and doing things.

Oh they will reminisce about the Philippines from wherever they are working and romanticize it, but they will never wantingly choose to return there to live permanently once they have the taste of western living standards. They all say they love their home country but if you gave them a choice regarding which citizenship they would have to keep either Filipino or Canadian, American, United Kingdom, Australia, New Zealand; they will choose the latter 9 out of 10 for sure. A local I used to work with who is a Spanish descended Filipino (I forget what they are locally called) was upset her father rescinded his American citizenship in the 70's or 80's when the country was doing good, I think at that time he had to choose either or for some reason. Now she is stuck living here and would like the luxury of having dual citizenship.

Being a westerner in a 3rd world country is great generally if you can at least provide a middle class income for yourself. Being a local stuck in a 3rd word country with little option on the other hand is not so good. I wouldn't want to be stuck with only a Filipino passport as it severely limits ones options in life. Living in America may suck, but having an American passport opens a lot of doors overseas, not so much a passport from the Philippines or any 3rd world nation.


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Winston, this is not meant to be rude or offensive.

When Dianne met you, she saw you as a rich foreigner. She admired you because you were from Uncle Sam country and because you were rich. She chose you because you were supposed to have money (no matter the truth or what you told her). She thought that you were filthy rich.

Now, she wants to get what she had been expecting: (no matter if this is unrealistic or not)
- money for her mom and dad
- money for her sisters and brothers
- clothes and money for herself.
- big money for the child

When a old guy shacks with a young girl, the young girl is often interested in wealth, and less in feelings and love. So the deal is: you bring in money, she bring her youth and keeps the house tidy and provides warm sex and attention. IMHO you have to strictly conform to that scheme in order for the relashionship to work. You have chosen a relashionship model, so stick to it. Don't expect the impossible.

If she doesn't want to do her part of the deal, then the deal is off. (meaning: she can get a job at a Gogo bar and work her ass silly to make a living. (pun intended)).
The part that can be negociated is how much does she wants in terms of money and other benefits. If she is too greedy, then you have to suggest that you can get a better offer "elsewhere".

Quote:

The lower cast of the Philippine society just cannot be trained to act middle class or above unless physically forced to out of distress or some kind of permanent enticement/reward system as they have been conditioned to act, think and behave a certain way that emulates their social understanding of the world around them, which is a sense of perpetual poverty. This means reminisce about the past, when have money spend it as fast as possible on "fun" stuff, and don't worry about tomorrow as they perceive having little or no power over their current predicament in life so why save for a future that may not ever come?

Yes, you are right. This is also part of the problem. May be it will be difficult for her to do some long term planing and to understand that she can't get the money if she doesn't do her part of the deal.

Robert A.Heinlein (US science fiction writer) says in his novel "Time Enough For Love" (TEFL) through one of his characters that you have to obey 3 rules:
- never shack with a girl who has got more problems that you have (Winston you might have broken that rule)
- never sign a paper without reading it
- do to others what they wanted to do to you before they have time to do it to you (fuck them before they can do it to you!).
These 3 rules will get you out of trouble in many situations.

Quote:

I mean, don't get me wrong, Dianne is great arm candy, which many people drool over when they see her. And she is very loyal, and is reasonably good at taking care of the baby and has solid mothering skills, even though she's often forgetful. But she has a bad and quick temper, has different values than me, is very lazy and has little energy and little patience, is wasteful, and very materialistic.

Quote:

Her greed has gotten so out of control that she has forgotten that we can't afford all the things she wants, house, car, etc. She may know that intellectually, but the intensity of her greed has overridden her logic and reasoning components, it seems.

Quote:

This behavior is very low class of course, since she is not from a middle class family

I think it's pretty clear that Dianne was a very poor choice as a wife and mother of your child. She comes from a background that is completely different from yours, with values common to the poor and low-class. Yet you pursued her, and even had a child with her.

Whatever her positive qualities are, she is still hopelessly incompatible with you -- and you really should have known that, even before you impregnated her.

IMO if you choose to stay in the PI, your only option is to leave Dianne AND your kid.

You cannot live with her and be happy, because she is too low class, too incompatible. She will never be satisfied with what you give her. And it's your child that's forcing you to remain with her. It's your child that's forcing you to provide money to people who don't care about you.

If you want to fix this problem, you will have to leave your kid knowing that you probably won't have much contact with him anymore. Perhaps Dianne and her family will allow you to see him, but you really have no control over this. Once your kid is in their care, he's theirs.

There is another option if you choose not to do this. You might take the baby and leave the Philippines. Put him under the care of either your parents or yourself. But of course, that means depriving him of his mother. The fact is, one of you has to lose custody of the child in order for you to get out of the mess you're in.

ErthernetGuy wrote:

Winston, this is not meant to be rude or offensive.

When Dianne met you, she saw you as a rich foreigner. She admired you because you were from Uncle Sam country and because you were rich. She chose you because you were supposed to have money (no matter the truth or what you told her). She thought that you were filthy rich.

Now, she wants to get what she had been expecting: (no matter if this is unrealistic or not)
- money for her mom and dad
- money for her sisters and brothers
- clothes and money for herself.
- big money for the child

When a old guy shacks with a young girl, the young girl is often interested in wealth, and less in feelings and love. So the deal is: you bring in money, she bring her youth and keeps the house tidy and provides warm sex and attention. IMHO you have to strictly conform to that scheme in order for the relashionship to work. You have chosen a relashionship model, so stick to it. Don't expect the impossible.

If she doesn't want to do her part of the deal, then the deal is off. (meaning: she can get a job at a Gogo bar and work her ass silly to make a living. (pun intended)).
The part that can be negociated is how much does she wants in terms of money and other benefits. If she is too greedy, then you have to suggest that you can get a better offer "elsewhere".

W: What you said is not rude. When our relationship first began almost two years ago, I told her that I wasn't rich and couldn't support her family. She said "no problem". And since then, most of the time, she has never asked for much, only occasionally. So I thought all was ok. But lately, she's just gotten progressively worse. I think she feels that her looks deserve to be rewarded with things, or else she's "wasting her looks", which she has hinted several times.

But I didn't just "tell her" that I was on a tight budget and was not a guy who can splurge, and provide for everyone with endless cash. I actually SHOWED her my bank balance online and bank statements, and what I make in a month too, etc. So she has SEEN the exact figures. And there is not excuse for her to maintain a delusion that I am rich and just not admitting it. She's SEEN the actual numbers that back up what I say. And she was fine with it before. It's only now that she's become pushy about it.

She also knows that my parents help me out sometimes with my expenses. But she also knows that I do not want to use my parent's financial assistance to fulfill her wants and her family's wants as well. That would be wrong and shameful.

What I don't get is why she claims not to waste money, but then whenever she has cash she spends it on manicures, hair rebonds, etc. which are luxury items that she doesn't really need. Obviously, her actions contradict her words. What I've been told by others here is that Filipinos like to spend without limits, because they do not live for tomorrow, only today. In the western world, we've been told to live for tomorrow and plan for it. But not here.

But the problem comes when they EXPECT ME to do the same in spending without limits. That's when the line is crossed.

Cash isn't meant to be ALL spent immediately. It's got to be saved for expenses. People have bills and have to pay rent. Some Filipinas here think that generosity from a man is a good thing. But what if he's so generous that he can't pay his rent and has to tell his landlady "I'm sorry. I was too generous with my cash and obeyed every request made to me. I have no money for rent this month." Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? In that case, would generosity have been a good thing? Duh!

It's not a matter of whether Dianne has more problems than me. It's just that she has different types of problems.

The thing is, even though I enjoy being with her, there is too much personality friction between us, and I'm afraid that if we stay together, it might shorten our lives.

Dianne hates it when I discuss our life and personal problems on this forum. But the way I see it, this forum is like a group of friends that will listen to each other. And everyone needs friends that listen to them and that they can vent to. So I'm glad to have you people of course. It's nice to have that right from your own home (along with air conditioner and iced tea )


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